I guess the risk of keeping a system at 75% contested in order to maximize defensive LP payouts is that you risk loosing that system to an organized and motivated opponent.
How many plexes do you need to go from 75% - 80% to 100% ? (That is a real question, I really don't know)

I not sure the number of offensive plexer will drop back to pre-inferno levels, 20,000 LP for a small plex at tier 3 is still decent ISK.
But it's true that it may not be enough of an incentive to make a real push, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

I am only sad that they didnt discuss the 'reset timer' option.

Where if a farmer is driven out of a plex the timer starts to count down to 0.

Still leaves to much incentive for people to make farming alts. I guess CCP like the extra accounts people are making and it would not make business sense for them to kill a cash cow.

At least for someone like me plexing is a means to getting a fight, whatever lp is a bonus for me. Unlike 85% of militia though plexing in itself is the goal.

If i go into vlill alone with 9 wartargets in local and manage a good kill without capturing a plex I am a happy man. I will take that over capturing any plex or lp i would get from it.

75% contested means system has lost all upgrades, so it will only be applicable for fringe/redundant systems that are not needed to maintain a given WZC tier. For upgraded systems, will primarily be out of the way and/or core systems, the alt armies will have to start orbiting before LP buffer is depleted.

Otherwise, yeah. Still not "feeling" the urge to defend much of anything as I don't do alts ... but suggested changes are heaps better than what Inferno brought

More or less this ^.


They are making some huge changes with unknown effects. Which is what they already did, and we see where that got us..
And if they take another 6 months to correct that mess?

This plus you may as well let them contest it to 75% before even adding any lp then there is no loss and losses at that point can be recouped by defensive plexing.

There is also a proposed cap where no offensive plexing lp is given.

If you were a very dominant faction you could let it get to vulnerable and then there would never be much incentive to plex the system as the offensive plexes would get no reward.

You just have to prevent them bashing the hub. Risky but then as you are space rich at level 5 and can deploy caps and then cyno jam the system you just have to be vigilant.

Feels like big swings to defending.

Man, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed ...


First, I don't think Justified Chaos are thrilled about logis, as they are all about 1337 pvp in frigs, skillz and all that crap that ppl invoke when they don't want to admit that they are afraid to put assets on the line. But I'm digressing.

Logistics shouldn't be an issue. After the great Inferno farm of 2012, logis should be pretty affordable for everyone in FW. As for SP, the "Caldari are rebuilding" argument held for a while, but by now your guys should have enough SP to be in logi themselves. As long as everyone can bring the same ships, it's not a problem.

As for the whole conspiracy theory ... I doubt one dev gets to decide how FW will change and I find the ideea that Hans would have any relevance in CCP strategy hilarious at best.

In one thing I agree with you though, the land grab will be interesting, because it will basically be a big game of chicken trying to balance cashing in and land grab. I suspect there will be a lot of meta involved, which imo is a lot of fun, but others might not enjoy it so much.

Lets pretend they never happen currently, or used to happen before inferno shall we.

That said, I think you're making too much out of the 'Gross LP Advantage = Irreversible Victory' angle. Making isk after the Winter Expansion will be fairly easy for everyone in FW, even if you're on the "losing" side. In fact, your faction making less LP overall will increase the market value of your LP store offerings.

And here I thought this thread would be about game mechanics, and that it would be somewhat boring. However,

I did not think there was anyone in this game as mentally ill as here displayed. Mister Damar I salute your depth of delusion and desire to promote the propaganda that will surely save your people from unfair defeat and bring them into glorious real victory. May your identification with a fictional race of poor persecuted internet spaceship fascists never end. 07

Glad they nerfed the lp store. Now there's no reason to go inside a plex. Doesnt matter anyway. Most of my engagements are on the plex gate or somewhere else (fu*k ship restrictions).

Ship restrictions are lame and is akin to hand holding. There should be NO 'arena' like sh!t. If you want that sh!t, go join rvb. Any and everything can and should happen. Otherwise its as lame as the alliance tournament.

The changes to the lp store will hurt alot of corporations and alliances that rely on it (saw this coming and planned for it, heh!). There may b even less reason to work with each other just because j**s and long winded talkers (politics) want more isk so they can go afk and change skills.

I may be a caldari ultranationalist terrorist, but even i dont take faction warfare seriously. However, I'm somewhat interested in seeing how this will effect the fighting. Will I have to rely more on pirating and roaming 0.0 or will I be able to farm the other faction for about atleast a year?. I'm interested in how these changes will effect activity on the other side (gallente), not so much my own milltia (caldari).


- end transmission

Yeah, it's terrible that CCP realized the imbalance of npc ecm and decided to take that away. Clearly that supports Damar's paranoia.

Now I bet they are working on, oh hey they have said it already, ending the imbalance of non-speed tankable caldari npc missile spam v caldari farmers easily able to speed tank the ridiculous hybrid fail of the Gallente npcs. Again more evidence that CCP wants to persecute the poor caldari.

Why would they make a game, have the largest portion of the population roll caldari and have the caldari militia be the largest, buff caldari frigates now to be best in class, but still work to even out the npc so that Caldari would lose? It's unfair and evil of CCP.

Sorry, but when FW first kicked off there were 100 man + bs blobs / fights every night of the week, so who determines that FW should be about small ship fights? tis a sandbox dont forget you get out of it what you want.

If we want to blob the **** out of you we will do, if we want to engage in small scale pvp we will do.

Just because you can not compete on this front doesnt mean its not part of FW - You wanna be the kings of small scale pvp then good on ya, go for it and fill your boots - some corps on the Gallente side feel the same way, some dont.

0.0 is an endgame for some but not everyone.

BS / Logi blobs in FW this way <---------------

BM, you once pulled an awesome plan with SB'ing battleships against a Gallente gang warping to a plex gate and killed the majority of them.

So big ships / fleets do play a role in system control, just because they cant enter plexxes does not mean that they are not able to play a role.

Also, you want to live in and "own" a low sec system its not only just about plexxing - You need the numbers etc to be able to do this (yes keeping systems from vulnerable ofc requires small stuff as well), but to constantly keep a system under your control you need to also keep your opponents at bay.

And you can not do this with 5 people flying T1 frigates.

Agree with you mate, you need both the blob and smaller presense as well to totally dominate in FW - Just gets on my **** when you get the same numpties with the "waaah wahhh, you've spent too much time and effort becoming organised and efficient, you dont belong here get out" response.

And to encourage PvP, CCP should definitely do away with plans to allow a single WT to stop the timer just by being on grid. Speedy Benny-Hill chases don't make for satisfying pew pew for a lot of players. But this has been a very commonly-voiced reservation about Ytterbium's posts, and I'd be surprised if this possibility isn't on CCP's radar.

Gallente this, GalMil that. You guys are an angry bunch.

Are you having fun in FW? I'm having fun.

You'd be angry too if you had badmouthed and talked smack in local to another Caldari militia corp and then caused your own alliance to be permanently wardecced by them.

So no, I don't think NAERY is having alot of fun. So much so that Caldari State Capturing has failscascaded and NAERY abandoned the alliance because they couldn't deal with the war. Honestly, I wish Damar would stop poisoning Cal Mil with all his incessant and immature behavior. We were doing well until this latest fiasco..

Oh of course. I should've known that somehow Gal Mil's fault again and never ever the constant drama that is Cal Mil and your own mouth that got you in trouble.

The fact is that YOU USED TO BE a PVPer. But nowadays, you're a forum warrior with bad grammar and a pvp hack whose glory days of Draketrain is behind him. You spin your days orbiting buttons and avoiding bigger gangs and wardecs because you;

a) don't have the motivation to pvp
b) don't have the personnel to pvp
c) are afraid to pvp


Please just leave Cal Mil and let the mature people run the militia. We're all better off without you two roleplaying idiots.

Regardless, I'm glad you're still getting wardecced because you're only showing your true colors; cowards and bad pvpers who run. And yes, leaving the alliance was partly due to alliance inactivity (because of the wardec), and partly due to schisms in leadership that were caused because of the wardec

And which leader should that be? Do you know how many pilots were in Dark-Rising during 6 years?

I give a crap what they do in your militia.

Poison Ivvy was in DARK for a bit more than a month and Nahzgul was a member in 2007/08 and I personaly don't even know that person.
And yeah we totaly don't shoot our "alt" corp: http://dark-rising.co.uk/Dark/killboard/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=999

Like you said they have an ex member as CEO of the executor corp.....More than a thousand different people (not accounts) played this game in Dark-Rising.

You (and Damar) are Paranoid.

And this continued bull crap is why I am so glad the changes are only months away. Back to ignoring ******** militia people and militia crap.

I am finally 100% convinced that Cal Mil will always be ******** no matter how much effort is put into cleaning the crap out of the toilet. Cal Mil is their own worst enemy. Whenever something good is happening the same people start QQ and cause problems. Cal Mil seems 100% against any entity every growing large. No wonder Hidden Snake ignores the militia....




By the way Frog Steamers is recruiting.

I'm looking at militia options for my corp. What resources are available for me? I"d like to start making contacts and decide on a militia to join/system to live out of. Is there an ingame chan I can chat on?

I really dont care what happened. My point is someone in Cal Mil always gets pissy because "someone may be gathering a "leadership status" "When that happens they decide to throw a revolt no matter how well things are working.

Its like this...cal mil is broke...someone fixes it ...then

"no u spy! u are out for urself! u dont care about the little 2 man corp that cant contribute anything! *rage* "Why are you not making things easy and convenient for my 2 man corp!! *rage* " I know lets cause drama and eff everything up because we are FW and no one should lead FW *rage*.......

I guess achieving 5 LP dumps and T5 is too much for Cal Mil to take in.

Its just silly, you have bitter vets mad because they dont play a role in militia anymore (because they actively do not) and then 3itch until they destroy what actually was working. Its an amazing thing I have never seen anywhere else.

Usually if it aint broke dont fix it.....in Cal Mil its lets break it because being fixed means we arent "free"

Ridciulous...I know lets DDOS the spy's Ts3 (aka the militi ts3)

If someone wants to war dec another cal mil corp have at it. If they do it because they think your icon should have blue hair instead of green...its fine with me.

There are too many **** ant corps in militias that cant contribute anything and then simply 3itch. This thread is proof of that.

Get over it.

DEAR GOD X GAL WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO YOUR HAIR

Bolster does more for CalMil than what you or Amarr 7th or most of the senior bitter vets of Cal Mil could ever do. I really wish most of the bitter vets would leave CalMil and let the new guards take over.

Because the bitter vets 3itch the loudest and cause the most internal upset.

I have chat logs of MANY MANY bittervets telling people that I am a gallente spy as well as the other Kraken leadership. Lots of chat logs. Anyone that actually had weight was deemed a spy and was spread throughout other channels.

All it takes in a militia is to get the little irrelevant corps to start causing rakus to disrupt the whole boat. Which is what they did. Have a couple bitter vets start spreading rumors that Bolsterbomb is making isk hand over fist off the militia and then have one sorry reject (dragon sn1per) take it to an extreme to DDOS a team speak server that the entire militia used.

Its like putting the bullet in the gun and handing it to the guy while whispering in his ear "do it, he deserves it, do it..."

You can say you didnt do it but the bitter vets caused enough of a problem to disrupt the norm.

Just as an example: One bitter vet trolled the heck out of the intel channel over something his corpmate did, in the meantime one bitter vet came online (the only admin..hint hint...) banned half of militia from the channel.

In all the items that were setup by myself for the militia there were no less then 6 Admins that had access to all roles and user granted privileges. Including people I think are the biggest bitter *ickhead vets out there

All it takes in militia is for several guys to cross their arms and plant their feet to start problems. It isnt that they can cause the disruption by themself, its that they cause the wave of disruption. When people see this it is a ripple effect. If they arent going to do it, neither am I and so forth.

Anyone can destroy a militia easily. You can be one person that simply has a voice and all goes down the crapper.

That is how the disruption of cal mil occured. The bitter vets are simply bitter vets and will always be the problem. As an ex gallente that is one thing I see the difference in. Cal Mil bitter vets would rather sit in their single system and do what they want complaining and 3itching at the others while doing nothing. I can rattle off their names and several examples but it would do no good. I am simply grateful that in 2 months cal mil wont need them. Bitter Vets can go sit in their hole and complain that "Big Bad Bolster is mean"

Just for kicks. Just as an example. These bitter vets were mad because when kraken alliance was created all the people with a brain and all the people that lead fleets went over. The bitter vets were pissed, because no one was left to direct the lemmings. They did all sorts of stuff to disrupt the entire cal mil over it. They had these p1ss ant corps up in arms because they didnt have any fcs.

My response now, awwww you dont have an FC in your corp. Sounds like you need a new corp. Awww your ceo wasnt involved in the planning. Sounds like you need a new corp. Even when nthe forums were up and I had all militia ceos access to vote on what direction the militia should go CEOS wouldnt participate, but they sure liked to 3itch about it later.

Welcome to Cal Mil

And it starts by sending all bitter vets to amar.

Two prominent members of the Caldari have been dared to post text of internal Caldari affairs as proof of conflict - I say DOUBLE dared, and even once triple dared. And.... nothing.

I can only conclude this drama is a Caldari militia conspiracy to divert attention from discussing CCP's proposed mechanics that will essentially favor the vast minions of Caldari (soon to become defensive) plexing alts.

Yo guys we are totally Gall alts!!!

I-¦m just loling at Damars latest attempt to get some attention :)
May we have a long and fruitfull war, here in HE we are patient I hope I-¦ll break your year and half record time war so we can take special spot in all of Naery-¦s minds.

Now back to loling at all this drama that we could care less for :) We be here for the awesome pew epw and ty to Galls for never dissapointing HE in that aspect keep good fight coming!

This is so classic of the EvE playerbase: Out looking for new ways to break a game mechanic before it's even introduced.

How many times does this pattern repeat itself? CCP introduces something new and interesting. They have a plan for how it will work. Ten seconds later the playerbase find a way to game/exploit/break the new thing, with the general theme of removing all risk and getting ten times the ISK out of it than was ever originally intended. When CCP finally gets around to fixing the easily exploited mechanics the playerbase then all starts crying "Wah! You're taking away my freedom! Sandbox something sandbox!"

The reality is simple: CCP creates a sandbox, the players then use it for a litterbox and then wonder why their "freedom of choice" keeps getting taken away. A good rule for MMOs in general is "Don't make the Devs your enemy." Yet for the EvE playerbase, the Devs are apparently seen as some kind of boss monster that you have to defeat to get the best loot.

At this point I would not be surprised if CCP simply removed FW entirely, since it's obvious that not enough people have any intentions of using it responsibly.

When will we learn?

Haven't you heard? CCP is biased for gallente, so no-one would get kicked. Even when they warned damar for exploiting, they rejected his public forum arguments that CCP was biased against caldari.

See, thats the funny thing. On the Cal/Gal side, the reason you guys have so much drama is your perceptions of FW and the fact that everyone involved feeds into it horribly and compounds the problems even more. People get caught up in the drama and the metagame involved, totally losing sight of the real issues at hand or reasons that anything is actually happening. Witch hunts polarize the pawns against a perceived threats and help consolidate their allegiance with the distraction and clear labeling of the "bad guy" regardless of the reality.

The spy situation is a perfect point in that, the fear and paranoia that the threat of spies create has a far greater impact on the Caldari militia than the spies themselves could inflict. People blame spies for the reason certain things happen, instead of accepting that maybe it has nothing to do with spies and they're just bad.

Regarding fleet commanders, I agree that simply willing to step up and lead is extremely important, however, i'd argue that without innate ability, the positives of being willing to step up is totally negated. Bad FCs hurt you much more than they help you over the long run, despite having the short term effect of getting people into fleet and flying around in space.